Pierre Serrao

We came in as disruptors. In the culinary space, artistic space, you don't really see many groups of people doing things together, especially like Black men. Right. And we wanted to create a space and a movement where we could show people that those things can coexist. It's like we are all able to express ourselves creatively, whether we're doing a sneaker with Jordan or headphones with Beats by Dre, or making knives in Japan, or pressing olive oil in Italy, or creating systems that feed, you know, the food in the Bronx and across the country, and use different mediums to express ourselves, but, like, food is always our center point. Welcome to Office Of, a clubhouse for sharp takes on confidence, drive, and being a solid man. This is a place for unfiltered stories, questions get answered, and new ones get asked with some of today's most fascinating guys.

This is your space, your story, your rules. Come on in. The door is open. Today on Office Of, we're sitting down with Pierre Suro, also known as Chef P, the co-founder of Ghetto Gastro. Now, Ghetto Gastro isn't a restaurant. It's a collective and a cultural platform that was born in the Bronx that uses food as a language to tell stories, to reclaim identity, and to build community. Their work lives at the intersection of cuisine, art, design, music, and activism, centering Black and brown food ways while challenging who gets to define culture, taste, and value. What started as intimate gatherings and underground dinners has evolved into a full creative engine, producing cultural moments, large-scale activations, brand collaborations, and community-driven initiatives.

Ghetto Gastro doesn't just make food. They make space: space for conversation, community, reflection, and connection. Pierre came up through traditional kitchens and global culinary training, but he chose a different path, one that treats food as authorship rather than commodity. As Chef P, what he's known as, he uses food to comment on what's happening in society, to nourish beyond the plate, and to build bridges where there are gaps. In this conversation, we talk about the early days. It's all about the power of community, food as a vehicle for storytelling, and the responsibility that comes with using culture as a tool. This conversation is all about Ghetto Gastro, and it's a conversation about food as culture, not just cuisine.

Welcome to the Office Of Pierre Suro. Thanks for doing this. Glad to be here. I'm super stoked to talk to you. I've been doing my, my research on you and what the collective is, and I wanna get to know one of the guys behind the collective because I think your story is super fascinating. So before we sort of get into what Ghetto Gastro actually is- Mm-hmm ... and before all the titles and the accolades, I kinda wanna know who you were as a kid. Before Chef P, before food sort of became your language, who were you? Oh, man. My mom would call me Peter Piper. [laughs] You know? But, um, yeah, when I was a kid, I was just, like, super athletic, and my father's from Barbados, so- Yeah ... I grew up between Connecticut and Barbados.

You already got to my next question already. [laughs] Yeah. That was, like, a big part of my identity as a child is, like, I had, like, kinda two different personalities when I was a kid. One was, like, a more island, laid back, and then one was, like, more Connecticut, where I had to be a little bit more, you know, have my head on my shoulders and act different 'cause I was different and super competitive as well 'cause my younger brother and I played sports at a, at a high level, so... It was just, like, a lot of ath-athletics and honestly, when I was young, I did a lot of, uh, stuff in the streets as well, so it was, like, very active. What do you mean by stuff in the streets? I, I sold a lot of weed. That was, like, my hustle- Yeah ... as a, as a, as a youth. Yeah. But, like, I was selling, I was selling trees from... I think I started selling weed in, like, sixth grade.

Until what grade? Until I was a grown-ass adult. [laughs] For sure. You ever get into crazy trouble with that? Define crazy trouble. Never, like, any prison sentences or anything- Right ... like that, you know? But I've definitely been arrested a few times, for sure. It's really interesting that you sort of divided your time between Barbados and- Mm-hmm ... Connecticut. They are quite varied worlds. What did sort of moving between those two worlds teach you about identity and belonging? Because I'm sure it was a very different structure and a very different way of living in each location, but you had to sort of navigate the center of both. Yeah, for sure. I think that growing up i-in between the islands and, like, a place like Connecticut, there's literally night and day.

When you're in Barbados, it's, like, feet out in the sand- Yeah ... running through the streets, no shirts, just, like, really connected with, uh, all sorts of walks of lives of people because it's a very touristy place, so you're meeting- Definitely ... you know, I'm hanging out with locals, and then I'm also hanging out with international people who are traveling. So I was introduced to just kinda, like, a global community at a young age, and then just being in Connecticut, people are actually just, like, a lot more reserved, and people don't really move around as much. So they kinda are stuck in their own worlds over there. So I definitely had to kind of be a chameleon in a sense, where I wouldn't even talk the same when I'm in the s- when, when I'm in, uh, you know, Connecticut or Barbados. It's a- Did you have to put on sort of these different personas? Yeah, for sure.

I mean, 'cause people in Connecticut wouldn't understand some of the reference points that I had in Barbados- For sure ... and vice versa. You know? So it's like you definitely have to kinda, like, assimilate to where you're at and have conversations that people can understand and use terminologies that people can understand and speak with certain, uh- Affliction in your, in your words and stuff so that people can understand Do you feel more Connecticut, or do you feel more Barbados? All day I've always felt more Barbados. Even, like, going to school in CT and, you know, my mom's family is from Connecticut. My dad is from Barbados, and I just feel like I came to gain so much information, like, knowledge about myself when I lived in Barbados and, like, things that I was passionate about and things that I really liked and versus things that I was just liking because they were around me.

That's where I kinda, like, found the things that I was more passionate about when I was younger. I was like, "Okay, I like this. I like this. I don't like this as much, but I can do it or I'm good at it, so I'll just maintain that while I'm here, you know? And then once I get to a certain place in my life, I'll be able to make my own decisions and go that direction." And what was food like in your household growing up? What was your relationship to food growing up? In, I guess- Mm-hmm ... both locations, actually. Food is huge on both sides. Um, in my house itself, my mother's... was a avid baker. I know when, when I was young, she had, like, a party company, and she did, uh... She baked cakes and stuff as well, so I was around... It was called Party Your Way. She had a pink van she used to drive around. From that age, I was, you know, under 10, just going to events with her, helping her out, load the truck in, do this, do that, cater little events.

And I have, uh, four siblings. Three of us are within, like, two years of, of age, and she would always have us in the kitchen when we were young. So she would have us doing, like, different competitions to see who was washing dishes. Just like, "Yo, whoever peels potatoes the fastest and gets them cut and so and so doesn't have to wash the dishes," you know? She was ahead of the game with that. And all of my siblings cook. Um, my dad doesn't cook, and neither do his brothers. So I know when my mom met him, and then she had us, her goal was to make sure all of her kids could cook. So my sister went to culinary school. My younger brother works in food. I work in food. I've got a whole bunch of cousins. And then on my dad's side, my grandmother and her sisters were, like, real big bakers in Barbados.

They had their own bakeries and... Still some of my favorite baked goods ever to this day were my grandmother and her sisters', like, coconut sweet breads. So yeah, I've literally been surrounded by food in all sorts of different ways, different hustles and different flavor points and, uh, flavor profiles and things like that my whole life. What were meals like growing up- Mm ... in your household? Was it blast? Oh, yeah. We used to love eating. Everything was a competition. My siblings and myself, especially my younger brother, we always used to see, like, who was the best cook or who was... Who can make the best eggs or even getting to the point where we're making dinner for the family and making, like, the Sunday meal and Sunday lunch and stuff like that. That was a huge, like, rite of passage. So we ate, like, a very sort of West Indian flavor profile in my house.

Um, my father's very regimented in the thing. So he wants, like, macaroni pie, rice and peas, and roast chicken, and then he wants beef stew, and he wants... And then he wants, you know, his, uh, lentil soup and things like that. So our house was literally Monday it was one thing. Tuesday... You know, maybe once every once in a while, once a month, my mom would switch up what she was making, but for the most part, it was very regimented on how we ate. And did you find sort of growing up there was a point where, I guess, cooking, it stopped sort of being about necessity and tradition and more about expression? Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think that was, like, when I was in high school because that's how I kinda, like, communicated with people and finessed my way around.

How'd you do that? One of my homies, like, I hated school lunch. So, and one of my homies, his dad owned a deli. So we used to take kids' orders from, like, in school, go to the deli, make the, make the sandwiches and sell them and put them in, like, kids' lockers in between class. And the school found out, and they tried to suspend us 'cause they're like, "You guys are hustling illegally." It's like, yeah, you guys could've, you know, taught us how to set up a business and really go about it in a certain way. But being like that and then even just communicating with, like, with, like, chicks and, and, like, my homies, if I wanted something, like, if I needed a ride, 'cause I didn't drive, so it's like if I needed a ride to school, I was making somebody breakfast. I'm like, "I'll make you a bacon, egg, and cheese for a ride to school," you know? [laughs] And I was hustling. I used to get around like that. It was like I had the bacon, egg, and cheese, and I had the weed. So it was like I always had a ride.

Did you ever make a girl fall in love with you based on food that you made? I don't think there's a girl who's fallen in love with me that wasn't based off of the food that I made. Really? Yeah, literally. Every chick that I've-- Every woman, every partner I've ever had definitely was with me for the food. Like, for my first girlfriend, her, her favorite food was, uh, penne alla vodka. Yeah. So, like, you know, I'm young. That's-- I used to work... I was working in a restaurant from, like, the time I was 16 in, like, a little small pizzeria. And, uh, yeah, she, she just loved it. And I love pasta 'cause my mom ate a lot of pasta when she was pregnant with me. So they called me Pasta P. So, like, literally, like, I went to culinary school in Italy. I trained out there, and I have such a really strong appreciation for pasta and just, like, Italian food in general. But yeah, when I was young, that's how I used to communicate with people, man.

From, like, the time it was like, "I could bake you some cookies," or, "I can make some bacon, egg, and cheese or some pasta." That was, like, my go-to was bacon, egg, and cheese and pasta in high school on clear. Your love language is clearly- Mm-hmm ... food or acts of service. For sure. Was there a moment early on when you realized... This, this question sort of goes twofold 'cause it could lead us to sort of what you ended up doing, but where f- you realized that food could either be a way out or a way forward? I don't know when I really realized that it could be a way out, you know? Um, I was always teetering on the lines of I wanted to be an athlete or an entertainer of sorts and a comedian. I, I'm, uh, I'm not that funny of a guy, you know? But I'm more like- I just, I'm just charismatic, and I think that, like, I'm good with words and, like, I'm not embarrassed to say shit and do things.

So I always felt that I would want to be in some sort of space where I could express myself in those ways. Yeah. But I wasn't sure exactly how it, how, how it would come about. When I was younger, I used to DJ as well. So like at a, at a period in my life when I lived in Barbados, I used to DJ. My, my DJ name was DJ Astronomic. Astronomical sounds. Shit was out of this world. Were you a hit? Yeah, I used to play all the big parties. I used to... You know, I had literally, like, a double life. I was-- I had my own, like, little restaurant food establishment during the day, and then at night I was playing in parties and stuff. I was working myself to the bone at, like, 19. Yeah, I've always wanted to express myself in, in different ways, and I thought that I was gonna go a different direction, and then I was, I was just good at cooking.

I don't think I'm good at it. Yeah. I was good at it from, like, young, you know? Like I, I kinda just picked certain things up. I wasn't, like, an excellent cook, but, like, I had basic foundations 'cause my mom taught me. You were in... You were exposed to it. Yeah. It's like immersion therapy. Yeah, all my siblings. Like, literally everybody in my family can cook. So it's not about, like, who's making dinner. It's like, "What are we having?" 'Cause everybody could do something. We all have certain skill sets and... And it's like, it's a community building thing too. Yeah, for sure. I like to cook. I'm not a great cook, but there's something about it that if you don't have the foundation, and at this age I should have the foundation, it can be quite intimidating. Mm-hmm. Well, that's like anything in... That's like anything in life, you know? Yeah, that's right. You just have to give yourself, look, an hour a day. I can't remember who it was. I wanna say it was Arnold Schwarzenegger, but he talks about it.

He's like, "Yo, you give yourself one hour a day to practice something new. At the end of the year, that's three hundred and sixty-five hours of practice that you put in. Imagine how much better you'll be at something with three hundred and sixty-five hours of practice." So you do that few years, you could, you know, you can master something with just an hour, with just an hour a day. So I do the same thing with fitness and health and, you know, reading and, you know, I give myself an hour a day to do certain things because that accumulates over time, where it's like, all right, cool, now I understand so much more just 'cause I put my phone down or I chose not to turn the TV on or... What, what is the hour a day that you're trying to better yourself with this, this time around? Is it, is it a skill specifically? Is there something you're trying to get better at?

I'm trying to get better at everything. So am I. So I literally will take an hour a day to devote to different things. Mm-hmm. Um, some stuff is financial, teaching myself different sort of loopholes and things that I wasn't ex- like, uh, exposed to as a child or as a kid or even just growing up, or things that I heard people talking about throughout my, like, my career and I've done more research on. Like, all right, cool. I remember when he was talking about, you know, man... You know, getting your assets appraised, getting my art appraised, and learning about taking my assets and how to put them into trust so that you can protect your things. Knowledge is power. You know, and, like, just teaching myself. It could be about that. It could be about food, different, like, different cooking techniques, different, um, different plateware, man, or it could just be language, or it could be something about another culture.

Like, I just like to learn more because I don't feel like we could ever really... I don't feel like we should ever stop learning. You're probably a sponge for knowledge and education- Straight up ... just to take it all on. I love it. You trained in traditional kitchens. Mm-hmm. What do those environments teach you about hierarchy? Mm. Like, 'cause that's sort of an interesting thing to me, the way in which a kitchen operates and the level of respect that is given to individuals in each role. I learned about hierarchy, like, in a sense that people are in certain positions for a reason. Mm-hmm. And even when you come into a kitchen, especially at a young age, that you might not necessarily agree with everything that people do, but they have certain skill sets that allow them to be the head chef or the chef de cuisine or a sous chef or a dishwasher, you know?

It's like there's a... And to me, I think the hierarchy is really just about patience- Mm-hmm ... and understanding and, and also being, like, realistic with yourself- Mm-hmm ... about, like, where you're at. 'Cause there's a lot of people who try to skip some la- some steps in the ladder to get to certain places, and when, you know, certain challenges or opportunities come up, come up to them, they tend to just, like, let it fall 'cause they weren't actually prepared. So you gotta respect the hierarchy and, and work your way up. Did you have every job within the traditional kitchen? Every job, from a dishwasher to a prep cook to a line cook, fry cook, garde manger, hot line, you know, up to junior sous, sous chef, and executive sous.

You did it all. Everything. So then you probably have a real appreciation for the kitchen, having been exposed to every single role. Hell yeah. I mean, you have to appreciate all the roles in the kitchen because everybody has a purpose, whether it's a dishwasher... Like, the dishwasher, everybody knows that the dishwasher is the most important in the restaurant because if you don't have any dishes, you can't [laughs] you can't eat. You know, you can't put food on anything. So yeah, I mean, I just really do. And, like, you... Even to this day, you'll still catch me washing dishes 'cause I'm, I don't think that I'm above any task. Like, I'm not trying to wash dishes, but, like, I will. [laughing] What did you find these traditional kitchens sort of didn't make space for? Like, if you look back on it, like, where were the missing gaps in those kitchens? I would say that it was definitely diversity.

You know, the, the kitchens weren't making space for diversity back then at all. It was really very one-dimensional on the flavor profiles and the people who were able to give any sort of creative ideas. And then, yeah, I would s- even say creativity as well. I think that some spaces nowadays and something that I really lean into is being able to express yourself and allowing other people who are in the establishment to express themselves. Noma does a really good job with that, with their Saturday night tradition is everybody making the dish, right? I- it's allows you to understand where everybody else is coming from, what their cooking styles are like, and it teaches you more about different races and walks of lives and different cooking styles versus just, like, what you're making in the restaurant all the time.

And- It's an expression. A hundred percent. And, like, you, you don't necessarily get that through family meal 'cause, like, family meal is usually, like, you gotta, like, whip up, like, a mosh posh of whatever's in the back and make it happen and make it good. Like, "Yo, we got extra carrots and, and hot dogs, bro. Like, make it shake." [laughing] You know, you can't really go crazy with that. Some people can, you know? Um, some Peruvians will go crazy, um, with the hot dogs, you know, what they call the salchipapa or whatever it is that they, that they make. [laughing] But yeah, like the, the kitchen space back then wasn't really about being creative or expressing yourself. It was just about like, yo, get your head, keep your head down, do what you're told, and don't have anything sent back. That's actually super interesting to me- Mm ... 'cause I don't know what the emotional state is in the kitchen when something's sent back.

It depends on what it was sent back for. What would break your heart if, uh, something was sent back? Not one thing getting sent back. What breaks you is, like, multiple things getting sent back. Like, if you're on, like, the grill station... Like, I remember, not myself personally, I've, I have never gone down in that much flames where it was just like, yo, everything's getting sent back. But there was one night I remember that there was a guy who was working the grill station at this restaurant. It was here in New York, Abe & Arthur's. It was a steakhouse I worked at, an M group. And this guy, our, our main grill cook, he, he called out. He got sickor whatever. So this other guy who works the station next to him was like: "I'll do it." And he goes: "I'm stepping up. I'm gonna-- You know, I'll show you guys I can cook some steak." Everything got sent back.

I mean, if he sent out 40 steaks that night, maybe 25 of them got sent back, and I mean, to the point where the, the, some of the steaks were so raw, it's like it was a, it was supposed to be well done, but it was r- but it was rare. It was, like, black and blue. The shit was still mooing, bro. It was like the chef was having such a hard time 'cause he was down his, he was down a guy, and it was a busy night, and he was just getting worked, and that sh- that, that, that broke him. He walked out of the restaurant. I don't even know if he showed his face again after that. And then somebody else has to just step in and, and take over. I remember I was the guy who had to step in and get all those steaks right. And did you? Nailed it. [laughs] How? 'Cause you know how to do it. Yeah, and it's like, it's, it's really, it's really just about experience.

Yeah. Like, you can't just hop onto a grill station in a busy-ass restaurant and think that you're gonna rock it on, rock the station on your first night if you've never, if you don't know how to, like, temper meat, and you don't know how to carry stuff over properly, and just... If you don't know how to work the station, you're gonna go down. This episode is brought to you by Rail. I live a pretty active life. I train, I go to the gym, I sweat, and I'm moving all day around New York City. And if I'm being completely honest, I shower two, maybe three times a day. Please hold the feedback. I don't have the attention span or the patience for anything really complicated. For me, I find what works, and I stick with it. Rail's Supreme Sport Cleansing Body Wash actually feels different. It's thick, it's rich, it's premium, and it has this clean, cooling mint that hits after a workout without being overpowering.

It cleans really hard but never leaves your skin feeling dry or stripped. For me, it feels like a reset, more like a recovery ritual than just another shower, and it's easily one of the best-smelling things in my bathroom. Use code OFFICE15 for fifteen percent off. Rail: it's simple, effective, and no fluff. Now, back to our guest. So before Ghetto Gastro existed, to me, something sort of needed to break. Mm-hmm. Right? Something needed to happen. What sort of felt missing in your early career? I think it was just, like, the, the access to the creativity. Yeah. Um, I was really searching for that because... So, like, growing up in Connecticut and then going to Barbados, after I left Barbados, I went to Barbados when I was, like, maybe 19, 20, and I lived there until I was, like, 22 or 23.

And I moved to New York from there, and I was like, "All right, cool. I'm in New York. I'm trying to be on the scene. I'm trying to, you know, get into the arts world, into the music or something like that in some way, shape, fashion, or form." And food, I was working in restaurants, and I was working in cool restaurants, so I had proximity to nightclubs and to certain, and to certain people, so I was able to maneuver in that way, but I wasn't getting to, like, the creative expression that I was looking for when I was working in the restaurants. Do you think that has to do with you were looking for freedom of sorts? Or was it more, like, creatively inclined? I think it was both because I was selling, I was moving work at that time, too, so, like, I was making way more money than I was making in the restaurant.

Right. You know? And that was definitely something that had, uh, something to do with me leaving the restaurants, too, is 'cause I was just making so much money. I'm like: "Look, bro, I don't need to, I don't need to do this hard, sweaty-ass job." But I always wanted to continue cooking, so I wanted to find different ways that I can keep that up without losing the pace. 'Cause that's something that I like, that I yearn for, is I like to be busy. I like to keep things moving. I like to solve a problem and progress onto another thing and do new things and just, like, create out of thin air. I love to, I love to do that. So it was kinda just natural progress because I was-- I got out of the restaurants, and I was hustling or whatever, and then I started doing some private work.

I was, did some work for, I'm not even gonna say this guy's name, but he just, he was just on trial. And- Private chef? I, I did some private chef work with him and some other people, like some oligarchs on the West Side and, uh, the Cen- in, like, Central New York and stuff like that, but I wasn't, I was not feeling working for people. Right. Because once again, I was like: "I don't need to work for you. I'm trying to find a way where I can express my creativity with some of the things that I've learned over these years and, and do it, like, in a cool way." So then I started doing events, and that was picking up. Some of my homies had me-- I was doing some parties out in the Hamptons, and I was doing stuff here in the city, and then- But this was before Ghetto Gastro existed. This was before- This is, like, you- Yeah ...

independently doing events. Like, are we talking catered dinners? All sorts of stuff. All sorts of stuff. So it was catered dinners, it was parties, or it was just, uh, small things at my house, just, like, little dinner vibes, having, you know, 10, 12 people pull up and just hang out and just cook up some spread 'cause, you know, I, I lived above a grocery store, too, so I was just going crazy. And we would just go downstairs, and every night it was just, like, a l- a ridiculously lavish meal. Your place was the place to be. A hundred percent. I lived in Long Island City, 27th floor, overlooking the city, uh, you know, floor to, floor to ceiling windows, unobstructed view of Manhattan. And then, like, all of my homies, like, lived in the neighborhood as well because b- that was before it, like, became, like, a family- Yeah ...

a family, a family town. Yeah, yeah. So, like, we were right on the water. We were all hustling. We were doing our thing. And life was good, man. It still is. Life is still good, but, like, back then it was just, like, a different sorta, different sort of energy, and we were all kinda growing and learning, uh, different avenues of business and different ways to express- Ourselves, and like that's how I met Jon, 'cause he was my neighbor in Long Island City. Oh, cool. What was the impetus and the original idea behind Ghetto Gastro? Because I think it's actually quite a difficult thing to describe, and I don't even wanna try actually. I was just gonna go into it and give you my definition of it. But when Ghetto Gastro sort of first launched, what was your concept behind it? So when GG first launched, okay- Is that what we call it, GG? Ghetto Gastro. [laughs] So when Ghetto Gastro first launched, I wasn't even actually on the team at that point.

So it was just Jon, uh, Jon Gray, my business partner, Les- Lester Walker. Yeah. And um, Les had just One Chopped, and Jon lived across the street from me at that point, but I wasn't-- I was still doing my own thing. And the, the real idea was like to create this company or this coalition of individuals that were just talented, and we just wanted to infiltrate different spaces. Yeah. Um, there was so many places that didn't have people that looked like us, especially when you go to restaurants or you think about, um, people in managerial positions, it was never really people of color. Yeah. And we were tired of seeing that. We were tired of going to different art events or fashion events and things like that where food was just an afterthought.

So it really became about, like inclusion and having a voice and just inserting yourself in places where there was a void for certain things. And it began just with, like doing house parties in Long Island City and, you know, quiet little dinner parties. They were doing them in, uh, all of Jon's apartments, but Long Island City was like a, was like a real serious point where it really just, where it really just kicked off, and it took it to a whole 'nother level. And, um, people who were attending those parties would be... First it was like ladies first, of course, you know, and then like they were all, like, working with different brands. So when they're ex-experiencing something like what we were doing at that time, it was very, it was very rare and very unique.

And, you know, she could be working at Ralph or Jack Daniels or Calvin Klein or Nike or something like that. They're like, "Oh, we need to do something with you guys here and do something with you there." And then from there, the idea and the ideas and everything around it just continued to build and organically until we got to the place where we're at now, where- Was it less about the food and more about the community that you were trying to build, or did they sort of two elements go hand in hand? It definitely went hand in hand. It was all about, like, building community through food. Yeah. At that time, it was like a Robin Hood thing where we would take leftovers from different events and bring them into the space and repurpose them and just host, uh, free food, you know, free vibes for the homies. So it was like a no waste thing, you know?

It's like, we're not gonna throw out any of this excess food. We could just have people come through and hang out and vibe. And with that being a thing where it was just-- people just ended up coming, eating and drinking for free, there was never a moment where people were like, "Nah, I'm not trying to come." Like- Right ... they're like, "Oh, no, these guys are about to be throwing down some delicious food and, and drinks, and there's gonna be some music, there's gonna be some beautiful people there, and it's free." How did you guys know you were onto something, though? Like, when did that moment hit? Because you've infiltrated culture. You guys are sort of changing the game of what a collective looks like. You're upping the ante on food and community and inclusion. But was there sort of a moment where the three of you were like, "Oh, this could be something"?

It was after we did Thanksgiving with Rick Owens and Michele Lamy- Tell me about it ... in, in Paris in two-- in twenty fifteen. Yeah. In twenty fifteen, after the terror attacks in Paris, you know, they, like- Yeah ... bombed a few, few different places, and a friend of ours, uh, Samira and Etienne, they, they reached out to us, and they were with Michele Lamy. They were working with, uh, Rick and Michele at the time. Um, and they hit us up, and they're like, "Yo, we want you guys to come out here and do a Thanksgiving meal for some, some of our friends to bring some joy to Paris around this time," you know? This is, like, maybe less than a week after those- Yeah ... after those attacks. So everybody's running scared from Paris, and we're like, "All right. Let's do it." Um, we've never activated in Paris before, and we want to really cross over into the high fashion world- Yeah ...

in a, in a, in a different sense. And when we did that meal, Michele was like, "Uh, it's going to be, uh, maybe fifty people." And it ended up being, like, close to, like, two hundred and twenty or something like that, like, in their living room of their house, which was crazy. We had, like- Was it insane? It was insane. We'd had, like, eight turkeys, just insane spread, and it was bomb. It was delicious. Everybody had such a good time, and that room was obviously filled with, like, the who's who of, uh, high fashion and, and luxury art in Paris at the time. And that, that vibe that we did just resonated with a lot of people. And it's funny because it felt like we had to leave here, go get validated over in Europe, and then for people back home to realize, like, "Oh, nah, these guys are really serious about this shit."

Isn't it weird that, like, sometimes your own hometown doesn't support you? You know, we had people here who were supporting us, you know? Um, but I feel like an international stamp of approval is just like- Hell yeah ... some- it's just, it just hits different. Yeah. And then when it's from the people that we, that we got it from, at the time it was like nobody was wearing Rick Owens like that. Now it's everywhere. And I won't say it's because of us, you know. I'll definitely say we influenced the culture, for sure. [laughs] Um, yeah. I mean, you know, this is, this is twenty fifteen that we did that, and from that, from that point on, though, once we did dinner with Rick and Michele, it was like, [whooshing sound]It was out of-- we were out of there. And how collaborative were they on the menu? Like, I understand they wanted to do a big Thanksgiving dinner.

They wanted Ghetto Gastro to come in and do it. Was it carte blanche? Like, you guys come in, do what you want, infuse your own flavors, your own recipe, your own menu. We're here to sort of be a, a blank canvas for your expression. Literally exactly like that. And honestly, that's how we work best. I think for us, we just offer something different, and we like to do things very bespoke and intentional for everything that we do. So, you know, nobody's coming up to us being like, "Hey. Okay, so we were thinking pigs in a blanket and, you know, maybe some, you know, some salads like this." Like, nah, we don't even have those conversations. It's just like, "Tell us what's happening, and we'll tell you what we think would be the best vibe." How cool is that to have, like, real creativity like that? It's literally what we search for. Um, I think as a creative individual, it's like you want to have just the ability to do the things that you wanna do and have people fund those projects.

Um, and we were able to have build a model where it works for everybody. Um, we don't create from, like, a very selfish place. We create from, like, somewhat of a selfish place because we make things that we think would-- that we would like. Um, we just trust our taste and our experiences to the point where we're like, "All right. Cool. If we like it, other people will like it," and if we don't, then we have things to work on. But yeah, we love just, like, that freedom of expression and being able to create at free will, and it's cool to have some, some boundaries or, you know, some parameters to work within, but, like, I don't like- Like, like a starting point, something. Yeah, yeah. Somebody could be like, "We have-- We're doing this event and/or this experience, and we really wanna tell this sort of story," and then we can just take that and run with it.

When you think about that Thanksgiving room and all that you sort of set out to do with Ghetto Gastro, do you feel as if that room or that moment was sort of emblematic of sort of diversity and inclusion and community? Yeah, I would definitely say so. I mean, there was people from all walks of life in the room, people from all over the world, all sorts of different jobs and, um, different artistic disciplines. So when I think about where I wanted to be, that was definitely the room. You know, that was what I dreamt of. It was getting to that point where it was like, all right, I'm in front of the head of Disney, and we ended up doing stuff with Marvel down the road after that for Black Panther, and we tasted-- we did-- we created the taste of Wakanda after.

Yeah. And that was like, you know, years later. But all of those moments in my head still resonates. I'm like, damn, I remember when we was in the room with these people for the first time. And now it's more... now it seems more regular to be able to have conversations with people in those spaces. But yeah, those are definitely moments that we prayed for and worked really hard to get to, but... And then we were there, and we made it pop. You know? It's like, we don't believe in luck. It's like when preparation and opportunity meet, that's when you really are able to show what you're made of, and we had that. It was just, it was just kismet, man. The universe was aligned. People have spoken about Ghetto Gastro as being this embodiment of combustion, right? Sort of mixing things that aren't supposed to coexist together.

What does that make you feel? I mean, that's exactly what we're supposed to do. We came in as disruptors. We wanted to make people think about the possibilities of what you can do, especially as a group. In the culinary space, artistic space, you don't really see many groups of people doing things together, especially like Black men. Right. And we wanted to create a space where, and a, and a movement where we could show people that those things can coexist. It's like we are all able to express ourselves creatively, whether we're doing a sneaker with Jordan or headphones with Beats by Dre or making knives in Japan or pressing olive oil in Italy or feeding, you know, creating systems that feed, you know, the food insecure in the Bronx and across the country. You know, we're all able to dibble dabble in different areas and just use different mediums to express ourselves, but, like, food is always our, our center point.

You guys have done some really cool shit. Yeah. Like- For sure ... are you super proud of what you have built? It's incredible. Yeah, definitely. I'm super proud of what we've built. I don't think-- I don't know many people who've achieved the sort of things that we've done. There's definitely people who have really amazing accomplishments in the industry. I'm not trying to act like we are the only ones who do things, you know? But we definitely opened up a lane for chefs to be able to be creative and express themselves and talk about where they're from and, you know, own their own narratives around the food that they're making. There's pioneers before us like, you know, Toni Tipton-Martin and Alexander Smalls, Dr. Jessica B. Harris, and Edna Lewis, but I would definitely say that Ghetto Gastro, we're-- when we put out our book, Black Power Kitchen, and even before that, when we had our studios in the Bronx and things like that, where we were doing, like, these really super clandestine experiential, uh, events with different brands and different artists and things like that, that, that definitely shifted how people in the industry looked at the limitations.

Mm-hmm. I think we started looking at the possibilities of what you can do with food and in food versus just being in a restaurant. 'Cause we never had a restaurant. Was the word ghetto intentional? Like, what were you trying to convey with that? Definitely. I mean, that was definitely Jon with the ghetto. Was there pushback? There was definitely pushback. The idea around that really is to just, like, indict the systems of neglect that put us in these positions in the first place. Right. But, like, people use the word ghetto in, like, a negative context, but so much beauty comes from the ghetto. Um, so much of our culture, whether it's in America or other, or other places around the world, comes from neighborhoods that are marginalized and neglected.

That's where people have the least amount of resources, so they have to get the most creative. When you think about music and fashion and food, like, a lot of our favorite foods come from the ghettos all over, whether it's in Italy or, or France or different places in Asia to here in America. Like, s- a lot of our favorite foods come from people not having access to certain things and having to work with what you got. You guys have built it up. Definitely. The idea of nourishment is super interesting to me too because it's not just the food that goes in your mouth- Mm-hmm ... in your body. It's about nourishing your mind, nourishing your soul, and nourishing community. What does your community look like today?

Ooh, our community is, is global. It's, it's really deep. I think our community is diverse, and it's strong, and, you know, we stand together. But at the end of the day, it looks like I have young cousins and, you know, young nieces and nephews and people from all walks of life that, that we communicate with on a, on a regular basis now. So it could be, like, kids from eight to 80, you know? Like, it's-- the community has definitely grown and expanded from being the small circle that it was, that it once was to, you know, now our reach is-Definitely a lot more broad. Um, I hear... I see people send me pictures from South Africa or Indonesia or different parts of all around the world.

Somebody sent me a picture of our book in the Arctic. Oh, no way. [laughs] Yeah. You know? Really? Like a, like a little bar up in, like, the northern-most point of the world, and they're like, "Look, Black Power Kitchen." And you were there. Yeah, our book was in there. You know? So I think our, our audience has definitely expanded a lot since we started, for sure. What is it... What's your experience with being a Black man today? Wow. That's a, that's a real question. My experience with being a Black man today is... Honestly, it hasn't really changed since I was young. Um, I've always had to have my head on a swivel, and my parents gave us those tough conversations when we were young like, "You know, you're Black, you're different than these, you know, you're, you're different than these white kids out here. You don't have the same permissions to do certain things and talk to people, uh, a certain way or else, you know, you're gonna get dealt with differently," you know?

And now I have... I mean, I always grew up with a lot of confidence, but I think that that's never been affected, man. I just move how I need to move and be smart about how I, you know, the situations I put myself in. And outside of that, I just do everything with integrity, you know? So I feel like the universe just rewards me for my good energy that I put out, and that's what I'ma just keep doing. But I don't, I don't, I don't... You know, I, I... It's definitely difficult out here for people of color and all around the country, um, all around the world, dude, but, like, I just focus on myself and go where I'm, you know, go where I'm celebrated, not where I'm tolerated.

That's so beautiful. Yeah. Do you believe in karma? 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Karma, karma is everything to me. Yeah. I do... I try to do nice for people on a daily. Do they do nice for you? Yeah, for sure. It comes back. Yeah, I, I'm blessed. Like, I go... I talk about this with the homies right now, like, we can go almost to any restaurant in the world and just pull up. I think that's more to do with the energy around what you've built- Mm-hmm ... with Gigi. Less about the food and more about sort of the mission behind it. Totally. And people wanna be a part of it. And you lead with kindness, and you lead with affection, and you clearly sort of lead with love and empathy, so I think people all over the world can feel that and can radiate that. And of course you'd be welcome at the table. Why wouldn't you?

Come on, man, we getting in the room off the aura alone. [laughs] It's just like- Or your muscles. Or the vibe, yeah. Honestly, it's like, what you wanna do? We either, you, we gonna... We could do this the easy way, or we could do it the hard way. But- [laughs] ... you know, we look out for people when they come to the city and they come to the town, and even when people go and travel, because we've been all around the world, so, like, I'll share my restaurant list with certain people and, like, spots- I'm sure that's a good list to have. I got a, I have an excellent list, you know? [laughs] And for a lot of, for a lot of different parts around the world, you know? So yeah, dude, it's just really about the vibes and the energy you put out. 'Cause when you think about us, we've never had an actual brick-and-mortar space where people could just walk in and vibe with us. Mm-hmm. So on that level, that's open to the public. We've had, you know- Yeah ... we have our own private studio spaces, but most people haven't had our food.

How would you describe your food? Like, if you were s- to use a few words to describe what it tastes like and what the energy behind it is. Delicious. [laughs] Period. Straight up. I mean, like, I just make really tasty food. I have just a lot of knowledge around the culinary space, and the things that I make, I spend a lot of time just trying to be the best at things. So I'll work on a recipe for eight years until I have the perfect cornbread or until I have, you know, just the perfect batter for my fritters or have my cakes have the right, you know, texture on the sponge and, you know- Oh, you're a real perfectionist. No, I, like, really, I really care because I just, I just want the best, and I just want to know that I pushed myself as well and, like, not got complacent with something and been like, "Oh, okay," like, "I, I know how to make that."

It's like, nah, like, take it a step further, almost like what the Japanese people do. Where does this drive come from? My dad. Your dad. Yeah. My dad, my dad gave me that discipline and that drive to wanna be the best. And when I was young, we played sports, and he would wake up and go to, go and train, and he still does, you know, wake up and go and train when we were younger. So my brother and I, we would wanna go hang out with our dad, so we're like, "All right, cool. We getting up with Dad. We going to the beach. We're gonna go train." And I mean, since I was young, getting up at 5:30 in the morning, you know, and going to train and work out, and it just got embedded in me. And I always want to strive to be better because, like, I don't wanna... It's just something that he literally beat into my head.

He's like, "If you wanna be the best, you have to beat the best, and in order for you to beat the best, you have to, you know, work harder than the rest." You're about to take on some personal solo projects that have heart and mean something to you, most notably Barbados, the place in which you're half from. Mm-hmm. What's in store for you as it relates to Barbados? Um, right now, I think the, a lot of the work that we've done over the past decade and some change has always, always been about community building, like A one from day one. And I want to take that same sort of energy to Barbados as well. I think not only in Barbados and in islands, but in just, like, small cities and places all over the, all over the world, people tend to leave to go seek, uh, higher learning, higher education, and more opportunities.

But once they get those things, they very rarely come back- Mm ... and apply those things back home. And I see the progression in the islands in the Caribbean and, um, the beauty that it, that it is out there, and then I also see the resources that are needed. People can't afford to fly around the world and go work in the-- everybody can't affli-afford to fly around the world and go work in top restaurants and get really amazing experience from these different establishments. But over the years of work that I've been doing with GG, I've built those resources, so I wanna bring them to Barbados and allow people to get international training. So, like, my, my goal right now is I launched Black Star Hospitality, which is all about bringing international talent in to work with local talent and to help advance the language of the food in the Caribbean, to decolonize food ways and- Yeah.

So going down there to open up the design studio, culinary design studio. Nice. And my first restaurant. Oh, nice. Yeah. Do we have a name? I wanna keep the name from the old spot. Got it. The subtext of this podcast is about male role models. It's not overt. It's sort of just ingrained in sort of the conversation and the dialogues that we're having. But I do find that guys today don't really have ample role models to sort of look up to. Mm-hmm. I think it's sort of a confusing time to be a guy to live through. Besides your dad, do you have any other role models, people who you look up to, who you're like, "That guy is sort of leading life the way I wanna live"? Man, there's different people that have influenced the way that I move in my life.

They're not necessarily people that I know personally, but growing up, I would look at people like Kobe Bryant. You know, it was, for me, it was Gordon Ramsay and Anthony Bourdain 'cause the way that they moved. So Gordon Ramsay was, you know, he had all the accolades and all the respect in the food industry, but with Kitchen Nightmares, he was literally just going into people's restaurants and just telling them the truth and then helping them make their stuff better. But he was giving it to them raw and uncut, and I appreciated the fact that he never had to code switch for television. He was like, "Fuck this. Fuck that. This is shite. Shut it down." Like, and you're, and you're, and you're, and you're, you're hearing it, and then he goes in. Not only is he saying it, but then he's able to go in and show you how to do it properly. It's feedback with action. Yeah.

So it's like you have to be able to walk it like you talk it. So people like that, and then, like, Kobe with his work ethic. And then I had different people around me. You know, I had cousins who were in prison, and I would, I would communicate with them, and they would give me different just, like, tips and motivation on, on mental fortitude because, you know, they're going through certain things while they're inside that they're learning about themselves, and they're giving me that game when I was young. So I learned from guys. I learned from women as well. I think that women are super strong, and sometimes women have to be both the man, the, the masculine and the feminine energy. And I think also guys have to learn. That's where I, like, learned softness and, like, nurturing from, um, like, wanting to take care of people and do good onto others. I definitely learned that from women. Um, you know, from, from men, I would say I, I learned, you know, how to be strong and how to be alert and how to, you know, having discipline and drive.

But I definitely take a lot from women as well because you gotta have balance in your life, so learning how to love and care and nurture and, uh, be more tender and delicate at times without having to... Y- everything doesn't always have to be so tough and aggressive. And I, and you l- and you see old traditional kitchens, it used to be really super toxic and masculine, and chefs used to throw plates and curse at you and just... It was really vulgar and like a, a, like a toxic place to work at the time, you know? But over the years, just being around certain people and seeing the people who live long, you know? I'm like, "What did you do? What are you doing to keep that ticker going, you know, at 80-something years old, still moving around, mobile, 90-something years old, still doing things?"

You know? Like, those are my goals in life. So learning how to better myself in different ways is really what the key is, and I pick up game from everybody. It could be a homeless guy on the street. It could be a dishwasher at the spot. It could be a taxi driver. Just being open to having conversations with people and, and, and listening and not a- not always having something to say is- Are you a good listener? Depends on what we're talking about. [laughs] Depends on what, it depends on what you're saying. Yeah, exactly. Like, I'll listen for sure. Like, if you're making sense, I'm all ears. As soon as you start to make things up, I'm gonna f- I'm gonna fact-check. And a lot of people, like my f- I used to get into a lot of beef with people, and I'd be like, "All right, cool, but, like, where did you get that from?" And like, "What are, like, what are your sources?" 'Cause, like, I don't just take anything that I hear from, I, you know, by, from anybody.

I'll take it with a grain of salt. But when I'm learning from people who are more successful than I am, and especially in certain areas, then I'm all ears. What do you want your legacy to be as a man? Mm. As a man, I just wanna be a stand-up guy, man. I want people to think about me and be like, "Damn." I want guys to wanna be like me, and I want women to want their men to be like me. You know? Just like, "This guy was good human. He was sexy. He was strong. He could cook, you know, and he was charismatic, and he's, and he was well-traveled." And, you know, he just, I just, I just care about the right things, you know? I feel like we get a lot, there's a lot of distractions out here, and I would just love for people to know that my focus is always about myself and then, like, the people around me.

But you can't help the people around you unless you can help yourself first. So everything starts here. [upbeat music]